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Post by mikeweeks2346 on Jul 20, 2015 16:14:47 GMT
Understanding the challenges of modding this game I simply wish to mention the following:
when the wallet is full and Ajay gets near an unopened chest, the screen displays the vanilla prompt "take item only?" (Or something very very close to that) instead of PJ's single "dot".
Of course it's a nice way to be reminded that your wallet is full, however in the nightmare version, should the player be reminded?
I have no idea if it couldn't be removed, or if that text prompt was simply over-looked when working thru the files.
So I mention it in case it's the latter for future reference.
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Post by pj on Jul 20, 2015 16:59:45 GMT
Hi Mike;
The single "dot" is Bontainer's mod, as he did have a few requests for "some kind of prompt". I don't personally use any prompts in my own version, preferring to rely only on the audio prompt. The dot can be removed without problems, but while agreeing with you vis a`vis "Nightmare" - that's up to B., and how he feels a "Nightmare" mod should be.
Re the message - I left the "Take items only" message in there Mike, as the player might not always be aware that his/her wallet is full, similarly with loot. However!! - these can also be removed, too.
I do currently have a version which has fewer prompts yet - and which also has full LipSynch working. Unfortunately (at the moment) it doesn't permit changes to the text, thus it can't change the store screen weapon or ammo names, so one would have to be satisfied with "Ammo for Handguns"; "Ammo for Assault rifles", etc.. instead of "7.62mm", etc.. - again - at odds with Bontainer's super mod.
ATB
pj
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Post by mikeweeks2346 on Jul 20, 2015 19:24:08 GMT
Thanks for taking the time to respond PJ. I see that I didn't include a third possibility as to why the text remained ...
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Post by JRavens on Jul 20, 2015 20:21:32 GMT
FWIW I'm kind of in bontainer's camp with the dot verse no dot. I've played long enough that the audio prompt is fine, but early on I found a lot of frustration that there is a spot where you can be "too close" to an object to interact with it. So sometimes I would spam the E button with no result and move around a bit to get the chest/door/whatever to open. If you turn off all props completely (flashing, pointers, etc) it might be a little off putting to some people.
(though I do realize the majority people playing Nightmare mode are likely seasoned players who aren't going to need or even want an indicator)
I personally like subdued indicators... things that aren't in your face. So a small dot or a single E or something doesn't bother me say in the way flashing objects do or a huge wall of text like "Press and Hold E to Open". I don't think we need a complete sentence plastered across the screen for all these interactive objects LOL
In the same way I personally don't mind camera tagging, but do not like weapons tagging (or the through the walls red x-ray "hack"). I feel like it gives the camera a good use and promotes staking out an outpost from a distance. Yeah it's a bit of hand holding, but not excessive in my mind. At least Far Cry lets us toggle those things individually now to suit individual play styles. It would be great if they had just added a prompt toggle as well.
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Post by pj on Jul 20, 2015 21:03:53 GMT
Is that audio prompt not in synch with the appearance of the Hold/Press/Jump/Loot/PickUp/Throw/Climb/Descend - (yada-yada-yada ) prompt? Exactly, JR!! This is a "Nightmare Mod"!! Why give anybody any hand-holding. If you're up to the challenge - then you don't need them. Even the HardCore mod ought to have most of them removed. In truth, I reckon limited prompting can be prioritized, depending upon the degree of "Casual", Regular", "HC" and then Bontainer's "NM" - but that Nightmare definitely implies "No help from me, buddy! and "This is the Marine Corps soldier" and "Suck it up, Buttercup!". Lt. Colonel Bill Kilgore wouldn't use prompts. No way.
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Post by mikeweeks2346 on Jul 20, 2015 21:20:09 GMT
I'm going to add my two cents; something small on the screen in FC4 is also fine by me. Unlike FC3 this game is much more involved with various activities the player can perform. So for example, no prompts whatsoever with Ziggy's mod in FC3 isn't really a big issue, but in FC4, holding/pressing and multiple functions of the same key means having to know what it is the player can do at that precise moment. I think we all agree, the various "prompt" noises made by the game are what needs to be removed (or at least the ability to do so), but unfortunately can't - at this stage at least. That Ubisoft made camera tagging an option with patch 1.8 was long overdue. I personally don't use it once done with vanilla (and when there was no option). For me it's two different game-play styles with tagging, or not (Nothing wrong with tagging and playing using that info for a completely different play style). I play slow, real slow ... so when it comes to outposts/forts, there's a period of simply watching and studying. It's a real challenge when after taking out one NPC, something changes in the pattern(s) of the others and you don't know it via seeing a red marker on an out-of-sight NPC, but by observing the actual movements. And then there's hunting - where did that third animal run off to - or is that "mad" yak off to my right, or left after I zapped its two buddies ...
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Post by pj on Jul 20, 2015 22:02:00 GMT
Same here, Mike - and I also play the game (1.10.0) with no tagging, a magazine/red dot - modded AK, throwing knives, the SVD with a silencer, and a Recurve Bow. Slow-speed Crouch, two weapons+one handgun, purchase-able medkits and ammo, but no plants. North opened up. It's a blend of JR's HC v18, Bontainer's NM, plus my own twiddling. It works with all current DLC. I found that the MG42 (and others weapons) dropped the challenge (ok the fear level), spoiling the game entirely. That AK is a nice equalizer, and both Bontainer and JR have created realistic damage values for this gun. One guy against six at and outpost ought to be a tough undertaking, especially with a couple of alarms.
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Post by mikeweeks2346 on Jul 21, 2015 0:54:09 GMT
Speaking of throwing knifes - I've yet to give them a major role since it requires the cross-hairs reticle option to be turned on in order for Ajay to "aim" the knife at his target. However given that the recurve bow is no longer a one-shot kill on NPCs wearing protection I might try a few knife throws and see if the damage it enough for a one shot kill (but even then, I most likely will be close enough for a straight takedown in the first place).
I'm also at the beginning stages of working thru the NM version as currently built, so I'm still feeling my way thru as to how to configure a typical loadout in free roam and how to make the various weapons available that I'm thinking I'm going to need in the upcoming missions (since they have pre-set objectives).
I must say that I've been impressed with the stopping power of the AK 7.62 - been able to kill RA heavies with clean head shots rather quickly. I also use the red dot as the normal scope.
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Post by pj on Jul 21, 2015 3:08:05 GMT
Me too, Mike! I loved DZiggy's FC3 HC mod for this very reason. His guns "felt" right. The vanilla FC4 weapons are all very tame, compared to the real world counterparts - even the sounds as they are now, are "pretty quiet".
In the real world for a minute - any AR that uses a similar calibre military bullet - the old Lee-Enfield .303 - headshot - will kill a man at 1000 yards - the caveat being that provided the gun is accurate, maybe has a good 20x scope, you're "a good shot" - and you have some luck! Bontainer has some very good low-down on the FC4 weaponry, and has done a remarkable job in getting them where they should be. JR's Damage mod is likewise very, very effective at meeting that realism bar.
Real world again - without a scope, the average guy can come somewhere inside a 4-foot square target at that 1000-yd/mtr distance. In FC4 you need to be a good bit under that distance if you want a headshot. The tricked-up AK that Ajay has should easily do it, with the scope and modern ammo (a lot depends on the ammo, as there are lots of 7.62 variants around) - but this is a computer game, and a lot depends on the game physics - the AI behaviour, you, your GPU and your monitor, and of course - the values Bontainer and JR set in the various .ark.fcb files in their respective mods.
I personally never use the AK to snipe; it has no semi-auto mode in-game, and that breath-holding ability is missing for all the AR's, and besides - it doesn't feel right, whereas the SVD, (oh, what a lovely weapon) - for it's high fire rate, decent distance, and low noise - that's a sniper rifle! (The AMR is just over the top for Kyrat.)
I see Ajay as one single guy and he has the job of taking down all these outposts, each one populated by a minimum of five - maybe six (or more) well armed soldiers. For most people this would be impossible, but - this is a game, as we know we will re-spawn, so we can risk a lot more. If the game rewound to square one it would be a different game! However - in Far Cry 4 it is possible that, with stealth, silence, study, concentration and the formulation of a plan - you will be able to take down all of the outposts - and the fortresses, too - without dying. Animals are my usual "gotcha", plus some of the assault missions - or the ocasional spurious vehicle that might get me. "Not dying" is always uppermost.
It's a lot of fun, Mike, and it's made more so by many of the very astute questions put forward by you.
Thanks, and All the Best; sorry for the long rambling post!
pj
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Post by mikeweeks2346 on Jul 21, 2015 6:45:02 GMT
Animals are my usual "gotcha", plus some of the assault missions - or the ocasional spurious vehicle that might get me. "Not dying" is always uppermost.
Yup, same here PJ! Not dying is the main goal, and that means reaching a safe location when it's time to wrap up play time. In this first pass with NM I've decided to takedown the forts early so that the pre-set buzzers are available for start/stops from three locations.
For a slightly different taste; what's a lot of fun is to find natural choke points when you can load out with basically completely crafted bags and play Rambo for a few minutes - just to enjoy seeing a lot of items explode and lay waste to the landscape ...
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Post by pj on Jul 21, 2015 13:41:50 GMT
We could be twins!
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Post by JRavens on Jul 21, 2015 16:32:07 GMT
>Is that audio prompt not in synch with the appearance of the >Hold/Press/Jump/Loot/PickUp/Throw/Climb/Descend - (yada-yada-yada ) prompt? Yeah it is and truthfully that's sufficient (though the constant un-uh noises do get a bit much after many hours of play), but like Mike with so many things you can interact with I (personally - everyone has a different tastes of course ) would rather have a subdues prompt INSTEAD of the noise prompt. We make do with what we can though and just not having 8 gazillion huge prompts is a blessing. >"Suck it up, Buttercup!" I did LOL >In truth, I reckon limited prompting can be prioritized, depending upon the degree of "Casual", Regular", "HC" and then Bontainer's "NM" I like this, but of course it would mean a lot of work now with the more difficult hex editing process we are doing. I envision maybe something like normal unmodified prompts for casual, a subdued prompt (an E or dot or whatever) for normal / HC and absolutely no prompts for NM. >I play slow, real slow ... so when it comes to outposts/forts, there's a period of simply watching and studying. I'm envious of you guys. I get too impatient after a minute or two and like to get down into the thick of things crouch walking around the compound trying to set traps and take out guards in a more... personal way. Of course this often goes tits up and then another kind of fun can be had. Sometimes though I do the bow and knife only routine. There's a real sense of satisfaction in that. And then other time Longinus gives you a rocket launcher, some C4 and a bunch of Molotovs and suddenly it's national "Fuck You Royal Army Day" > I've yet to give them a major role since it requires the cross-hairs reticle option to be turned on in order for Ajay to "aim" the knife at his target. Can you use the old trick of aiming with a red dot and then without moving your mouse throw the knife? I'm pretty sure I used that before (although the knives DO have some drop to them so if the guy is far away a rattling knife falling at his feet is sure to cause a stir) >JR's Damage mod is likewise very, very effective at meeting that realism bar. bontainer did all the heavy lifting. I just took his numbers and dialed them back a little so the end result was slightly higher than DZiggys, but well less than the actual real world limits (which are as you see in Nightmare Mod quite brutal ) I'm hoping to get the arks all sorted properly so the end result for damage models ends up like this: Casual - game normal Regular - DZiggys based values (aka my "increased damage" varient) Hardcore - my "high damage" values Nightmare - bontainers "real world" values This will make it pretty easy also for players to swap damage models if they want simply by exchanging the contents of the archetypes folder. It would also be a move away from trying to offer variants of HC or any other mod. If players want specific setups they can easily find out how to do that here on the forums. We all have our personal desires which really is the GREAT thing about modding - making the game your own
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Post by bontainer on Jul 21, 2015 17:27:40 GMT
Ok,
1. modular mod.
Since we would have to do it via the Nexus, I think the most sensible thing would be to make a seperate Mod for the various subcategories, e.g.
- a shopfile mod
- a crafting mod
etc, etc.
Each of these mods could contain an infinite number of elements.
The different elements would have to be packed in a way, so that you only have to insert them into the data_win32 directory, meaning packed with the correct directory included, like patch_hd/__unknown/misc/ so the users would only have do the same step with each modular mod part.
The description of the mod would contain a guide how to insert the elements into the main mod.
The elements themselves would contain decriptions what they contain.
2. Weapon damage
I took a look at Dziggys damage values. Effectively the person who made the values for him, came from the same background as I, all damage values are 50% of my values. E.g. a P416 doing 187 in my mod, do 90 in Dziggys mod, etc. , etc.
3. Kilgore
Light boards or heavy boards, I thought you young people would all be using light boards.... even in Germany the smell of Napalm in the morning could not be totally ignored - Man that was my first encounter with THE DOORS....
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Post by mikeweeks2346 on Jul 21, 2015 18:39:13 GMT
Regarding Jeff's being "envious of you guys" as it relates to "I play slow, real slow ..." - it naturally all basically comes down to the style one enjoys, or wishes to employ, for whatever reason. I'm naturally cautious in my default play style. Just hate anything which requires the player to have to defend hordes of rushing NPCs for example. If an o/p liberation attempt "goes south", my first instinct is to withdraw, and simply try it again once its been re-set, not try to slug it out. However here are some factors I will consider -- do I need the extra XP (sigh) or not, how's my ammo and exact weapon load out, have GP spawned to be cannon folder, etc, etc ...
Tagging allows for a much faster pace of gaming whether you wish to use stealth, or go loud. Your "situation awareness" allows for so much more speed in accomplishing the objective. i.e., you know already the sentry is on the other side of the building for example.
Regarding throwing knifes and using the red dot of your weapon - have tried it, and discovered it's too "clunky". Can be done in a pre-set, pre-alert environment. But the idea is if the knifes are selected, I should be able to move about as normal, and when an opportunity presents itself click, aim, throw, as I might a grenade if that makes sense given what's encountered, for example.
Again, IMHO, poor design by Ubisoft - they give the player the option for reticle on/off, yet require a cross-hair for the knife because they didn't design Ajays' arm with knife as the aiming point. Same for the bow in this sense - you don't aim down the arrow to fire, you aim based on a sight because the bow and arrow are at angles and come to a point established by the sight. Others may recall the discussion with Ziggy in this regard when he was updating his FC3 mod for those hunting quests requiring the bow - the bow to be picked up needed to have the standard, simple default sight. If it wasn't attached, it made no sense given the game design.
My apologies for the rambling.
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Post by bontainer on Jul 21, 2015 19:21:09 GMT
I think rambling is what keeps this forum going...
FC4 could be an absolutely brilliant game, if the guys from UBI would give us an SDK like Bethesda does. I guess they just don`t get it.
Bows are a really funny thing in the FC series. A bow is much more usefull if you do NOT use the aiming system, because the crosshairs do not tremble, in opposite to the targeting devices, and they become red if you are on target.
Remembering my long ago days as a gun instructor, the recruits were told to use the sighting device of the gun. Fire from the hip was not even discouraged, it was not even imagined. Well, we had the G3 in those days, 7.62 and not the weapon you want to fire from the hip, maybe that s the reason I like the A52 so much.
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